FORGET ABOUT THE DEPOSIT: how to invest so that your money works for you?

An investment is when you have, well, so much money that you don't know where to put it. For what? Why should I start investing? We have 1000 UAH. So we come into action, we see military bonds there.

What's next? If you have bought a military bond in Ukraine at least once, then consider yourself an investor. And what is the difference between a bond and a stock? The stock gives us the opportunity for greater profitability, but correspondingly greater risk.

What would you recommend? ee to invest in real estate or in a plot of land. We have to potentially think strategically for 10-20 years, what might await us. And, unfortunately, the prospects are not the best.

Ugh. [music] Money has to work. Invest them, financial experts tell us. But all I can do is force myself to work to have this money at all. Familiar? What if I told you that you can invest even with small amounts and without a bunch of papers and a lot of effort? Hello, this is the podcast How to Live, and I am its host, Alena Nizovets.

And today we will talk about how and what to invest in. And financial consultant Oksana Zhelezko will help us figure this out. Oksana Zhelezko is a financial manager, personal finance consultant, and lecturer.

has 15 years of experience in economics and finance. Currently, he conducts training in financial literacy, investments, and savings. She is developing her own podcast "Pay Yourself," where women talk about money, financial literacy, and self-realization.

Oksana, congratulations. Very glad to see you again in our studio. Thank you. Greetings. Today we will talk about investments. But before we analyze the various tools that exist today, and also analyze the questions from our subscribers, because they asked them in the comments under the announcement, I would like to ask a little blitz.

These are the results of our conversation, but at the beginning, to whet your interest. Okay, let 's get started. You can only invest when you have 1000 ps dollars.

Falsehood. Investing in real estate often does not pay off due to a lot of risks. Now you have to wait for the perfect moment to enter the stock market. There is no such thing as ideal.

You can get rich quickly on the stock exchange. No. Cryptocurrency is not an investment, but a tool. Well, an investment, if you, uh, manage it wisely.

Buying branded bags is an investment, because over time their price will increase. For me no, for others yes. The truth is in the middle.

So let's definitely analyze this question. Gold always increases in value, so it is a good type of investment. Well, gold doesn't always increase in price, but it is a good type of investment in certain proportions in an investment portfolio.

Domestic government bonds are a completely risk-free investment. It is not true that there are no risk-free investments. Corporate bonds are a better type of investment than government bonds because the yield is higher.

No, you need to compare the level of risk, amount, and term. Well, no. And the last thing. A deposit is not about investing, but about storing money. About accumulation.

Yes. One of the most popular questions about investments is: how much to start with? Because, again, it seems to many that an investment is when you have, well, so much money that you don't know where to put it, and so I'll go somewhere and invest it so that it works. Is that true? Well, a very common mistake, a prejudice, is that you can invest when you have a lot of money, and in our understanding, a super wealthy person.

But no, that's not true. And I will say even more, the less money you actually have, the better for a person to invest. Because at this point you start working, making your money work for you.

Money starts making money for you. What amount can you start with? Yes, you can start with 1000 UAH. Well, to be honest, for example, buying a Ukrainian military bond is already an investment and the minimum entry amount is 1,000 UAH.

So let's just start with these investments, when we don't have much money, we just have a starting amount, but what can we invest it in? Because if we're talking about something so material, that is, real estate, which we'll also talk about later, well, it has to be a large amount of money to invest. But where to start, so that, you know, gradually, perhaps, you can feel around, somehow make money, but so that it is, well, so to speak, rational.

Expedient, yes, rational and appropriate, correct. I wouldn't say it's risky, because we can't talk about no risk, because everything is risky, it's advisable. And I would say that the ideal picture should look like this: a person understands their personal budget.

We talked about personal finances earlier, then accumulate a financial cushion, then insure, uh, your life, your ability to work against risky diseases, maybe, well, depending on each person's personal situation, then start investing. When she moves from these stages to investments, she must first ask herself the question: what, why should I start investing? And it doesn't matter what amount of money you have on hand, 1,000 UAH or 1,000 dollars or 100,000 dollars, whatever, where I want to go, what I want to get thanks to these investments.

Because depending on the answer, where do I want to go, what do I want to receive, a person chooses an investment instrument. And so she can choose from there, but she cannot, and must choose an investment instrument according to her investment risk profile.

And a big mistake is to start investing because everyone does it, because my neighbor told me so, because it's in the information space, because I saw an advertisement, because I saw that the shares of some company increased fivefold in the last year and I lost everything. This is the feeling of this form.

No. What would happen? First we answer the questions, then we take the test. And it's not difficult, it's simple, believe me. We do a test to see what our risk profile is: conservative, moderate or aggressive.

And what is a risk profile? This is the level of risk we are able to withstand, relatively speaking, in simple words, the load, and we don't start selling there chaotically, right? Let's imagine a person started investing in shares on the stock market, we'll talk about that later. And there was a crisis and depending on her level of risk, she should have combined certain tools.

And the more conservative it is, the less risk it is willing to tolerate, the more conservative the instruments should be. There is also a lot of risk from this.

Well, for example, the simplest explanation would be that people with an aggressive risk profile should invest in cryptocurrency. For conservatives, well, that's a very high price to pay.

A person will be stressed, worried, and constantly checking the exchange rate of Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. That is, we must first think about what level of risk we are willing to withstand all this, what psychological burden we have, this resilience, what we can accept and what we cannot.

Because when a crypto grows, falls, grows again, it's all emotionally difficult for people. Therefore, you should not go with a conservative investment risk profile into aggressive investment instruments, because yes, of course, there can be a high level of profitability there, but accordingly, a high level of risk, for which a person is not prepared. If a crisis occurs, for example, she starts selling everything and loses capital.

The mistake was that she didn't study, didn't find out what her risk profile was and started choosing the wrong instruments for her investment portfolio. To invest correctly, you need to have a good understanding of what is happening in the world's economic and political arena.

For Liga Pro subscribers, my colleagues do the hottest analytics. So by subscribing, you will definitely be up to date with everything and make more informed investment decisions. Link to Pro League in the description under the video.

So we have determined this risk factor, profile profile risk profile, we have determined it. Further on, when a person knows what he wants to receive, what psycho-emotional load he is generally ready for in these investments, he begins to choose investment instruments according to his goals. what they can be short-term, medium-term and long-term goals.

Short-term up to one year, medium-term from one to three years, and long-term ideally over 10 years. And if, for example, the goal is short-term, this means that we can invest money exclusively within Ukraine and choose investment instruments that will be available to us there within one year.

For example, military bonds. Up to one year, we have the opportunity, for example, to invest through the action in military bonds with a maturity date there in three months, in five, in six. All of this, of course, affects the level of profitability.

The shorter the instrument, the lower the level of return. This is, for example, a short-term goal. If the medium-term goal is, for example, to buy a car or an apartment in Kyiv, yes, or not in Kyiv, in Ukraine.

That is, this is also a medium-term goal for which we should save within Ukraine, because withdrawing this money to the stock market abroad will cost more. Transaction costs plus the possibility of a crisis.

And when capital sags, it's not capital that sags, but the investment portfolio that sags, and we have to accumulate in Ukraine in more conservative, uh, often even fixed-income instruments. The best offers now are: before, it was deposits, people used them, now it's military bonds, the so-called domestic government loan bonds.

They were previously available, but few people knew about them, meaning you had to find out about them by going to the bank. Unfortunately, due to the full-scale invasion, this tool became, uh, well-known to many there, because it is thanks to it that the state attracts money to finance the army.

But for us, this is a good opportunity. And, for example, if we take the level of risk in Ukraine, it will be one of the most profitable instruments in Ukraine and there with a good return. And so, for example, a person decides to buy an apartment and determines the currency of this investment.

We should always also rely on the currency of the investment. For example, these are dollars, so she should accumulate money in dollars. And there is a long-term financial goal, my financial freedom or the capital of my children's adulthood.

or maybe even buy your own home, but in 15 years, in 20 years. In this case, we can already talk about the stock market and investments abroad. But if, for example, a person has little financial capacity, yes, and there is the potential to save 1,000 UAH per month, so that it is relevant for Ukrainians, and the person also wants to save for their financial freedom, they can, for example, consider investing in a non-state pension fund.

Ugh. I have been investing since 2004. This is the third tier of the pension system there. We all know about the solidarity pension system. This is when you and I work, we pay taxes and support today's pensioners.

And so, someday, there will be future children there, today's children, in the future adults who will pay taxes and support people our age in retirement. But that's not accurate.

Why? Because the demographic situation in the country is deteriorating, and the level of provision in our Pension Fund of Ukraine is generally deficient. That is, no one guarantees us this pension.

I even calculated that if I was lucky enough to be one of the three pensioners in 2054, my pension would be 4,134 UAH. It's difficult to live on this money now.

What are we talking about in the future? So then I understand that this is the objective situation. I have little financial capacity, financial potential for investment, but I have 1,000 UAH.

So, I go and choose not the state pension fund for myself, but there are a large number of them. It is important to look at profitability, but let's not look at profitability over the last 2-3 years, because that would not be representative, let's look at the last 15 years, which was in hryvnia. Compare whether the return shown by the private pension fund exceeds average inflation or not? We look at where the private pension fund invests, in what assets, and what their fate is.

In fact, this is a pretty good investment tool, because their activities, which is both a plus and a minus, are quite regulated by the state. The state controls this.

You open an account with a central administrator. That is, this account is yours in a non-state pension fund, it does not belong to a specific fund. It is administered by a separate institution.

And because of this, you even have the opportunity, if in the future your non-state pension fund shows unexpected results, worse ones, you may have the opportunity to transfer your money from one NPF to another NPF. That is, even when we have a small amount of money, we want to take care of our financial freedom in the future today, we take responsibility and invest, for example, in a private pension fund.

Ugh. A wonderful tool, indeed. I did n't even bring this question about the private pension fund into our conversation today, because it seemed to me that it wasn't about an investment, but on the other hand, yes, it is essentially an investment in the future, about the financial freedom we are talking about. Well, it would be appropriate to add that there is another instrument, for example, similar to a non-state pension fund.

This is life insurance or disability insurance. Yes, we also have three levels of insurance. First voluntary health insurance. The second level of insurance against critical illnesses.

And the third level is life insurance or a funded pension. And they are not similar to the state pension fund, but they have differences. For example, in savings insurance, there is a guaranteed amount that the company guarantees you will receive in retirement.

And, for example, in a private pension fund, you may have a situation where if you have a problem with money, you don't make a payment this month, then with the insurance company you have, you assume an obligation under the contract to pay a fixed amount. This is both a plus and a minus at the same time, because if you don't have money, you won't contribute and you won't have any penalties in the NPF.

Yes? But on the other hand, it can be relaxing and a person might think, "I'll buy something more important there today," and shift their focus. So, for example, this is less possible in an insurance company.

That is, it will discipline a person. Everything has its pros and cons, but for this we need to study each of the investment instruments. So yes, they exist and they work.

Listen, Alena, today we dealt with investments perfectly, but I, for example, want to learn how to save, and I also want to learn how to properly form a family budget. And I also want to start saving for retirement.

By the way, it's a very valid desire, because financial experts are now saying that if we have a pension, it's so meager that you wouldn't be able to live on it even now. So what do you advise me? It's worth subscribing to the YouTube channel League Life, because we've already figured out how to properly build a family budget and how to save.

Today we talked about investments. And we will definitely have a pension issue. Yes, but when? When, when, when our dear viewers subscribe to our channel, like this video, and also write a comment, for example, what financial topic interests you the most. By the way, you need to do all this too.

I'm already running. Because every subscription, like, and comment is an investment in cool and high-quality Ukrainian-language content. Let's talk more about bonds, because you did say that after the full-scale invasion began, and even more so after bonds became available in action, people started to become more interested in them.

But many people don't know how they work. Conditionally, we have 1000 UAH. Ugh. So we come into action, we see military bonds there. What's next? How does this system work? How is it paid? It turns out that we contribute these funds, the state takes them as a loan, and then we are paid some kind of coupon.

So, let's talk about this system. How does it all work? Let's compare a deposit and a military bond first. Why? Ugh.

Because historically, Ukrainians love deposits and have not considered other such popular investment instruments. Due to the full-scale invasion, military government bonds, the so-called OVDP, became popular in our country.

And what is the main disadvantage of a deposit compared to a military bond? This is an accumulation tool. Yes, uh, a military bond can also be considered an accumulation tool, but when you choose a deposit, you are subject to an 18% income tax levy and a 5% military levy.

That is, if you have both a deposit and a military bond of a nominal 16-year term in hryvnia, then by choosing a military bond based on the level of risk, it is an even more reliable military bond than a deposit, and you keep 23% in your pocket. Just by knowing the difference between these two investment instruments, you are simply saving yourself a sum of money.

Yes. Wow. Yes. But I looked at the statistics of the National Bank. Ukrainians continue to keep money in deposits to a greater extent. Because it is a clear tool.

Yes, there is no need to study anything here. Yes. And let's deal with bonds. What is a bond? - this is when the issuer. The issuer may be different.

The state, institution, company, even a state institution issues a security and borrows money from people or from legal entities and says that I will return this money with a certain rate of return within such and such a period. And if there is an example of a military bond, then first of all it is worth noting that they are issued by the state, they can be bought there at auction.

Yes, there is a primary market and a secondary market. We buy military bonds on the secondary market from brokers who bought them on the primary market. And brokers can include not only banks, but also financial institutions.

For example, the largest banks in Ukraine are usually brokers, but there are also financial institutions that also buy these military bonds. You can invest through stocks, through banks, and through financial institutions.

Three currencies are currently available for investment in military bonds: hryvnia from 1,000 UAH, dollar and euro from 1,000 conventional units. Accordingly, from 1000 USD and from 1000 EUR.

Military bonds in hryvnia can be purchased through the exchange and through a bunch of banks. And, for example, military bonds in currency cannot be purchased through actions. They can be purchased through banks or financial institutions.

And you buy this bond and it, for example, can cost less than the face value, for example, $965 or more than the face value, for example, 100 UAH. It all depends on the issue date, on the date the bond is issued and given, well, accordingly, there will be a maturity date.

whether the coupon payment on this bond has already taken place or not. This will affect the profitability there, so as not to complicate it, whoever wants to, well, read the difference, uh, between the nominal value. And what is the essence of military bonds? You are paid a coupon.

The coupon is usually paid depending, of course, on the term of the bond, but if it is an annual bond, twice during the term, in months and then annually. And at the time of redemption, for example, you bought a military bond and you urgently need money.

And if you sell it before the coupon is paid, you earn nothing. You have the opportunity to sell, but you won't make any money. Just understand this.

And if, for example, you waited a whole year before making this investment, you will receive a coupon payment in a few months and then you will receive a refund of the principal amount you paid for the bond plus another coupon payment. We've dealt with government bonds, but there are still corporate bonds.

I looked to see if Novapay was available, it was Nova Poshta. Also, the Rush company, they are the ones that own Eve. And there are many.

And another one of those famous ones. There are really a lot of them there. The festival is there. Well, there are a lot of them actually. But look, what is the main difference? First, the issuer, yes, who issues this bond.

Here the state issues it, here a commercial institution issues it. The state is actually more reliable. Therefore, it would be worth considering that if you choose a commercial institution, it should ideally give you greater profitability.

But there is another nuance. For example, when you invest in corporate bonds, there is taxation similar to a deposit. When you receive income from a corporate bond, you will also need to pay 18% personal income tax plus 5% military levy.

So at this point I even created a table where we calculated the potential return between a military bond and a corporate bond, comparing and contrasting them. And usually, unfortunately, not in favor of corporate bonds.

But when can it be useful? When you have money, for example, 100,000 UAH, 150,000 UAH, and 10,000 UAH, and you want to invest it for one month, it is rarely possible to buy a bond in action that would have a maturity of up to one month. A one-month deposit generally has a low yield, it's not interesting, then a specific corporate bond comes to your aid.

In most of them, you can invest for one month and you will get a return, yes, not as much as you compared to military or regular government bonds, but it's still a return. And what is the difference between a bond and a stock? Because a bond is also a security.

Ugh. So, bonds differ from stocks in that, firstly, they are a fixed type of investment return. Plus, you don't become the owner. This is a security that consists of conditional compensation, return.

You get your money back and that's it, your relationship with the issuer is over. With a share, you become a co-owner of a part of a small company. Of course, you won't have the majority vote there, but you take on the responsibility and risks.

of this company. That is, if the company shows a profit, the profit will be distributed to you. If the company shows a loss, you also receive this loss. Yes, a stock gives us the opportunity for greater profitability, but correspondingly greater risk, because there can be both profits and losses in the activity.

And then, as investors, we take on these risks. There you become a co-owner. In a bond, you do not become a co-owner, but you will simply have an exclusively commercial relationship, not a partnership, where you lend and receive your fixed remuneration. You don't get excess profits there when the company might get them, but at the same time you don't get losses if the company does get them.

then in a stock, it will all be both profits and losses, depending on the performance of the institution in a specific period. Well, once you have a campaign, you need to follow the agenda in the world in general, because it is influenced by many factors.

Of course, at least someone said something, what the political and economic situation is, and so on. So let's talk about the stock market, because most of the questions from our subscribers were about the stock market.

If I'm not mistaken, Interact Brokers is open for Ukraine in 2019. This is an application, there is a website. This is a broker.

First of all, let's say this. This is a broker that allows Ukrainians to enter the stock exchange and buy securities. Super.

How can an ordinary Ukrainian enter Ukraine? Besides the fact that you need to register, you already need to have an account there to send money abroad. How does this all work? Well, it was easier before the full-scale invasion.

We could send money using SWIFT payments and we were not so limited in the amount, yes, there before full-scale it was 200,000. If you have your own money, officially earned, and it is visible on your tax returns, you could invest this amount once, like once a year, without any questions.

Now, unfortunately, we have limitations. First of all, there are 100,000 UAH of unnecessary transfers per month. But how do you generally log in and open an account with Interac Brokers? There will be a questionnaire there, you need to fill it out, they will ask for your last name, first name, registration, income level, where the money comes from.

Well, that is, a basic questionnaire that we fill out in many places. You have filled it out and then you need to create an ideal, in an ideal world, define your risk profile, which we talked about at the beginning, and create your investment strategy, that is, your investment portfolio. What will be your ratio of stocks, bonds, maybe a raid, maybe gold, metals, that is, create your investment strategy and then you will have access to the stock market.

You will definitely be asked about your experience investing in various securities and it should be real. Well, that sounds very serious.

Yes, well, look, if you have bought a military bond in Ukraine at least once, then consider that you have become an investor. Let's assume so, shall we? And you opened an account, created an investment strategy, and started buying stocks or bonds or ITF funds.

Even the largest cryptocurrency can be bought on the stock market, so you understand, on exchanges. The biggest common mistake is that people buy shares of one company.

That's what she sounds like. Ugh. They buy everything. And they do n't need anything else. Well, like Apple, McDonald's. There is, for example, a strategy to invest in the seven largest technology companies there.

Well, at most people there have heard of the SNP 500 index and are trying to buy it. But the SNP 500 index is a benchmark. You can't buy the S&P 500 index.

You can buy an ETF that tracks the S&P 500 index. There are many of these ETFs. And best of all, if you are a passive investor, you need to understand how you will buy these securities in general, what you will add to yourself, what three paths you have, yes, three tracks you can follow. The first is, for example, to go to a financial advisor who will create an investment strategy for you, tell you what to buy, according to your goals, needs, financial capabilities, and planning horizon.

Second, you will go to training, where you will learn the general difference between stocks and bonds, what exchanges there are, how to access them, how to open an account, how to determine your risk profile, and what investment strategy to adopt for yourself. You will build a portfolio, test it in models, its potential profitability, based on historical profitability data.

And third, figure it out on your own. Here you have three tracks. You have to decide which one you would like to go for. Each of them has its own advantages and disadvantages.

And my personal opinion is that it is best to go the learning track, if you are a beginner investor and you do not have a super large financial capacity. Why? Because you invest money in education once, you understand it, and it is very important that when you entrust your money somewhere, it doesn't matter whether it is the stock market, whether it is agricultural land, or whether it is military bonds in Ukraine, it doesn't matter.

You have to understand why you are doing this, why you chose this or that tool. And you go to school, you understand, you figure it out, you build an investment portfolio and, for example, there, for the first 300, 500, depending on the financial capacity of each person, you buy your first securities. That's it.

And at this point you should buy IK funds. This is such a collective hodgepodge, to put it simply. This is, as I understand it, a portfolio that contains several companies, shares of several companies. Well, not even stocks of several companies, but this, well, you have several funds in the ideal picture, which, for example, one ETF invests in the US market, another ETF invests in developed countries, a third ETF invests in developing countries, or, for example, one ETF that invests in stocks all over the world.

That is, you can even buy one security that will invest in stocks around the world. What you get is a so-called broad index fund, meaning you invest in a broad market, the entire global market. You will simply have an insane amount of diversification.

You are not investing in one technology company or even seven technology companies, you are investing in the entire market. This is ideal, so that it's like the entire market.

Why? Because this way we reduce the risks that, for example, if we take one company exclusively, focus on it, and then some crisis occurs in it, it is greatly affected, accordingly it becomes bankrupt and you lose everything. So if we're talking about passive investing, when you don't know how to analyze companies, you don't know how to look at their reports, then it's best to go and choose those that invest in everything.

This is passive index investing. It shows an average return of 8% in the long term. That is, it shows the markets quite well. Not all companies are far ahead of these results.

And another plus, so that you understand, if you want to have Apple, Nvidia, Microsoft, Google, then if you invest, for example, in the EE index in an ETF that copies the S&P 500, or if you invest in a VTF that invests in the US market, there will definitely be in the top ten all these companies that everyone is chasing so much, but by investing in an ETF, you will have potentially lower returns, but also much lower risk. You will have diversification.

By buying a security, for example, SPI, you invest in 505 companies, uh, the US market, and so you buy one price, one security and invest in one company there. Do you understand the difference? Let's imagine that a certain company went bankrupt.

They simply remove it from this index and start a new company in its place. And this loss is distributed among all the accomplices of this company and the results there, well, there will be no loss if all the other companies showed, yes, income. And if you invested in this same company yourself, Ugh.

and it showed a loss, then you completely get a loss-making result there, at least for a certain period of time. But, you know, buying is one thing.

So we bought it, what next? We need to keep an eye on all of this. Well, you can do this right in the Interact Brokers application. It shows graphs, meaning we can see how a certain company's revenue changes over time.

Well, before buying, we can, in principle, analyze using such a tool, as I understand it. Yes, well, first of all, yes, we can track it all in the app, we can look at it on Google Finance. Well, there are a large number of options where we can track.

Globally speaking, yes, for example, if there is a crisis in the stock market, well, believe me, you won't miss this news. Well, everyone knew about the 2008 crisis.

Likewise, if a crisis occurs, you won't miss this news. But what is important to add is that if you decide to enter the stock market, it is great that you invest there regularly. And this means that you will go into your office, look at the results of previous periods, but never invest and do not look at the result of your TEF.

Today you see -15%, -7. You see, you need to analyze returns over a long period of time, because, for example, if I were to plot a graph for you, for example, for some ETF, at the point and there, when the market slumped in April, yes, in April of 2025, it slumped and there was a decline. If I were to finish the chart at this point and show you whether it's worth investing in this ATF, everyone would say: "No, what are you talking about, it's already falling." And if we continue to today, it will be clearly visible that after April 25th, well, there was a recovery and growth, and it is growing again.

Therefore, we look first at the long-term segment and analyze it. And so we see the results of our profitability, but we understand that we are investing for a long period of time. And if you have a balanced strategy that matches your risk, you know you haven't chosen anything superfluous.

For example, we bought, uh, let's imagine, three ETFs, one equity ETF that invests in the entire international stock market. The second ETF invests in bonds, and the third ETF invests in gold.

You have covered the entire market and your task is to rebalance in a disciplined manner. Until you buy additional shares for a certain amount of money, you just buy more and watch. If, during this period of time, since the last time you replenished your stocks, they have grown and shown great profitability, your task as an investor is to rebalance and return the proportions of your investment portfolio to your standards.

Let's imagine, for example, that this is just an example without any binding. to none. This does not need to be copied. Let's imagine, for example, that you decided to allocate 40% to stocks, 50% to bonds, and 10% to gold.

And you lived with this portfolio for six months, saw that instead of 40% stocks, you now have 60% stocks, 30% bonds, and 10% gold. This means you need to increase the proportion of bonds to return to this initial proportion of your investment portfolio.

Your task, as a passive investor, is to rebalance and constantly invest. Well, this is again about discipline and the fact that we still need to monitor all of this, even if we are passive investors, because money works, but we have to work with it to ensure that it is in balance, at least. What about our responsibility? Yes, that's true about the stock market.

If, conditionally, after a certain period, we are talking about long-term investments, we decided to withdraw, sell these shares. How is taxation done and how does this refund work? To make it simpler, the strategy can be cumulative, when the money you earn during your investment is returned to you in this ETF and accumulated.

Or maybe it's a dividend. This is when you are paid dividends either once a month or once a quarter, quarterly, during your investment. There could be such a scenario, or there could be, for example, the formation of investment profit.

When does investment profit occur? It happens when you start selling these stocks. You sell shares and you need to pay taxes. For example, if you previously had an accumulative strategy and never filed a tax return, then you will need to pay taxes when you sell the securities.

And the tax is not paid on the entire amount that you receive in your hands, but it is paid on the difference between the invested funds and the funds received. If, for example, you had a loss, you don't have to pay taxes, but you need to track that there as well.

Well, let's imagine that you had dividends, then you need to pay 9% tax on the dividends. If, for example, you have generated investment income, we have signed an agreement with the states on the absence of double taxation. And because within the states there is also tax payment and brokers act as tax agents.

But it's quite difficult. It is often necessary to prove to our tax authorities that you are not obligated to pay taxes in Ukraine in full because you have already paid part of them in the United States. But, for example, if you do not prove it to the tax authorities and decide to pay the tax again, then there will be an 18% income tax and a 5% military tax.

Can we buy Ukrainian companies and actually buy their shares, do they exist on the Western stock market? Well, everyone probably saw the news that for the first time in the history of Ukraine, Kyivstar went public on the Natsdak stock exchange. This is the first time it has entered the American stock exchange.

But yes, there are Ukrainian companies that are traded on the Warsaw Stock Exchange. We can buy. So yes, such an option also exists. We also had a question from a subscriber.

We have revealed almost everything. She was so generous with her questions, but that was the last one. Can we open a bank account abroad? First of all, often in order to open an account abroad, you need to have tax residency in that country.

That is, to have a reason why we have the right to open an account there. Not all countries allow you to open an account abroad. And on the other hand, I have a question: why? If you live in Ukraine, plan to live in Ukraine, and your economic interests are here, then it is simply better to open an Interactive Brokers account and invest all over the world with the help of Interactive Brokers.

And why then have an account in another country if you don't have tax residency there, you don't have economic interests, just to store money, well, if they just sit in the account, they will depreciate. Well, it's important to understand the context here, no matter what.

Well, it won't change for us, for example, if we invest conditionally from our foreign card, from a foreign Western bank, or from a Ukrainian card. Well, maybe it all depends on the SU.

There may be questions, for example, where did the money on the foreign card come from? Pete, look, there is nothing better for the tax authorities of both countries than a person who has not decided on his own tax residency. Then we first need to understand where we are tax resident and conduct our activities from there.

Because at the beginning of the conversation there was a question about the possibility of withdrawing money from Ukrainian cards abroad. That is, for example, there are possibilities, there are payment systems that help transfer money from a Ukrainian card using the Pirtur method to a payment system abroad and then from this payment system send money to Interactive Brokers.

This is a recurrency, for example. Yes. Revolu is currently unavailable in Ukraine. Weiss with disabilities. Transfр GO for now, because, look, everything is changing a lot.

G genome. Well, there are payment systems that allow us to send money abroad. We can't do it via Swift. All.

We have closed the topic of bonds and stocks. I suggest moving on to another topic. This is when we, in principle, have such a considerable amount. These are investments in real estate, land, as well as in some material things.

I would like to start with material things. We have already talked about bags in Blitz, for example, but very often it is not only about bags. It could be some vintage items, fine art.

It could also be wine. For example, today our operations editor said that he has a friend who invests in his own wine. And he has a whole big collection.

And he hopes that someday, yes, actually, someday he will be able to sell it for a higher amount. Is this an investment and, uh, can we even consider it that way? And we can definitely consider it. See what an investment is.

This is the investment of money for the purpose of making a profit or having a social impact. In this case, we are talking about profit. If you put money into something and then transfer it with a profit, it can be called an investment.

The issue of familiarity, knowledge, and expertise in a particular niche. Well, not all people can invest in all investment instruments, in all types of investments. And the question is: why? I'm generally in favor of people investing in what they understand the most, yes, or where the subject interests them.

Because, well, let's start there, let's start with the simplest thing, which is bags. Yes. Yes. I personally don't think it's a great investment, because they need bags in the first place, what are you buying them for? To wear or to sell in years to make money? If you wear it, the question becomes, how to wear it? It is necessary to carry and store it as carefully as possible. Oh, plus, uh, there was an incident recently, a famous woman, an influencer in Ukraine, was robbed and a bunch of these bags were taken away.

That is, you understand, if you buy them with the aim of receiving money in the future, then you should not wear them, store them in a suitable place, and be as knowledgeable as possible about this so as not to fall for replicas on various resale platforms. Therefore, if you are strong in this, you have expertise in this, and you have already made this favorable condition at least once, bought, sold more expensively, you can consider this investment instrument for yourself.

But it's definitely not for everyone. Well, I could say the same thing about vintage fine art, for example, antiques. Yes.

Ugh. This is also something you need to understand when you know exactly how to properly evaluate it, whether it's really not a fake, who to sell it to, how to track it, because there is a whole market, entire platforms where this is monitored, where it is evaluated, where there are real connoisseurs. Well, let's take art for example, okay? And there is the story of a collector who invested in art many years ago and 40% of his collection became super profitable.

Yes, these four are known all over the world today, but imagine how much money was invested. And this happened many years after all these major investments. And this does not mean that even now we cannot invest in contemporary Ukrainian artists there.

For example, there is the platform Spylno Art. Its founder, Natasha Tkachenko, helps people who want to invest in art do so. But usually, investing in art begins with, ah, your own desire to buy art objects for your home.

Quite often, a person has such a track. A person starts studying, becomes interested, and has enough free money. She goes to a consultant, let's be honest, and already chooses works of art that could potentially become a good investment in the future, at least for 5 years.

That's right. But for this you also need to have quite significant capital, and to invest in this art you need to pay for the services of a consultant. If you are a beginner, this is clearly not the easiest track for you in investing.

and to monitor, because, for example, my grandfather has a collection of paintings in his house, and I understand that it needs to be monitored, not exposed to the sun, for example, to specifically clean the dust there. Well, it's all very administrative, quite a big investment on your part too.

Moreover, if a person is professionally involved in investing in art, there are special storage facilities, uh, under guard even in Kyiv, where people take art objects and they don't hang at home. Often, of course, they hang them at home, but if it's about a professional level, they get to the point where they have nowhere to store these paintings and they want to store them in a proper place with proper conditions, temperature, lighting, without sunlight.

This can all be difficult. What about jewelry? Jewelry, if we say that a person wants to invest in gold, then jewelry is not the best investment. Well, let's be honest.

And I'll add about investing in gold. Everyone thinks that if we are talking to you about gold, then you have to run to the bank, buy a bar and it will be an investment in gold. You have the opportunity to invest in gold on the stock market and you won't have the same need to store it, because gold, if you take it with a grain of salt, is quite difficult to sell.

They are accepted only by a few financial institutions and banks in Ukraine. And this is not available in every distant city. That's gold.

You can invest in gold on the stock market from your computer. Don't take it literally. If we talk about jewelry, then this is the same echo of this cultural tradition that Ukrainian women passed down, yes, jewelry, because we don't have the concept of old money, we don't have these large inheritances and not such a large amount of capital in general that could be passed down, and we women passed down this jewelry. But it's also not the best kind of investment.

Not the best, because in principle it doesn't increase in price afterwards. No, you buy a piece of jewelry and the work of the designer and the company is included. This piece of jewelry, you will very rarely be able to sell it for more.

I like it, well, I like it when I watch how they try to sell Cartier after someone, well, for example, an engagement ring, and they try to sell a Cartier engagement ring. Well, is this an investment? No.

That is, don't consider jewelry as an investment. If we're talking about precious metals, yes, we talked about gold, but as far as I understand, you can also buy platinum and silver. Yes, you can buy a large amount of metals.

Well, a lot, but it's not that common, I understand. Yes, because it's a fairly specialized niche. It needs to be developed, well, understood. Ugh.

What about gemstones? So, is there really anywhere in Ukraine where you can buy stones, for example? Yes, you can buy, you can invest in diamonds if you want, for example. It's like, yes, one of the most expensive stones you can have.

But also a question of preservation. Ugh. How much are you willing to keep at home in today's realities, when missiles and shaheeds are flying? Well, it should be at least a well- equipped safe. Or you should keep it in a safe, in a bank, in a locker.

You can invest if you know how you will act with it later and why you are doing it. And where is it bought in general? Well, are these some special institutions or can they also be purchased at the bank? At the bank? No. And these are called auctions.

Aha. You can buy. Let's get back to real estate. Actually, we talked to you so often last time about real estate, about the fact that there are a lot of risks right now, precisely because of martial law, and also because there are many other risks. At a minimum, this also requires administration.

This is both time and repairs, because something can break or simply become obsolete. And this can also be used, for example, for rent, if you later decide to rent out this apartment. In general, when should you invest in housing in Ukraine? Let's put it this way, this is not passive investing.

You can invest in housing, and if you understand that you will recoup this investment, which means the cost of the property itself plus repairs, plus any current cosmetic repairs, preferably no more than 10 years. Then this might be interesting.

The latest financial models, if we consider investment options there in the foundation, and in the new structure, the yield is much, much less than the level of military bonds. So understand the difference between the threshold for entry into a housing investment and a military bond.

Super different. And when can you invest? For example, if you are considering an investment in the secondary market, buy an apartment in a good location and then, for example, you want to rent it out daily, this is also not passive investing. You can transfer, there are special companies that do this.

They, for example, you do repairs there, it's your responsibility, you hand them over to management and companies rent them out there for daily rent for RnB, for booking. There may be a higher return, but that is also always, always what we count on first.

But I imagine it's just, well, there are various unscrupulous people, for example, branders. That is, this will also affect what will happen to your apartment, and what they can take from you somewhere quietly. Yes, well, the risks are high.

And we don't even take the risk that a missile might arrive. Let's take commercial real estate. Ugh. Commercial real estate looks more attractive now.

Why? Because you don't do the first repair there. Yes, usually the tenant does these repairs. We also count. Next up could be recreational real estate, where you invest in recreational areas where people go on vacation.

But we also consider that we always evaluate if, for example, the border is opened, will there be the same high demand for recreational real estate, for example, in the western part of Ukraine? Unlikely. We always consider the advantages.

There is an opportunity, for example, to invest in co-investments in hotel complexes. It is very popular now. I've even seen bloggers advertise themselves, pretending to invest, buy a house, for example, in a large complex, and then actually say: "I have a house, but a company will take care of it." Yes.

And they administer it completely, right? And you receive some certain dividends. This already looks like passive investing. But again, what does the company make money from? On the occupancy, that is, how many people lived in this house during the month.

And accordingly, we will receive income based on the level of occupancy. And the question is the same, if the borders are opened, will this building be so interesting, if its concept says so, because there are cool buildings there, yes, with views, panoramas, in principle, a person goes there to get an experience, so it could be interesting. Always keep in mind, this is not true, no no, this can be a really interesting proposition if you clearly understand how this concept will differ qualitatively from the analogue, well, from others on the market, from the neighboring one.

And land, if we just take a piece of land, again, there are two sides to the coin here, because, as I understand it, we can buy a share, that is, it is some part of the land that belongs, for example, to agriculture or a person. Not necessarily.

We were being divided up, and when we got land, it was given to people who were members of this collective farm, in different places, and they were given shares. Yes, we can either purchase from someone, either from legal entities, or from individuals.

Or we can buy an entire plot of land, for example, to potentially build a house later. Well, we can't build on agricultural land because it has a different purpose. We can buy an agricultural share or a plot for development.

If we take an agricultural share, then the land market has now opened. We have the opportunity to buy as Ukrainians, as citizens of the country, and Ukrainian legal entities also already have the opportunity to buy. Foreigners cannot buy yet.

What is interesting about investing in agricultural land? Because it is a limited resource. Well, you can't build land plots, like one-room apartments. And land is a limited resource, its value is increasing, and with greater market opening, it will increase even more.

If Ukraine potentially becomes a member of the European Union, the Earth will grow greatly. Because, for example, in Europe, 1st class accommodation in the worst countries costs from €3-5,000, even up to €10,000. In Ukraine, land can now be bought for between $1,000 and $2,500, depending on the location, soil fertility, and plot size.

Well, there are many conditions, but it is still much lower than world land prices. Plus, the quality of our soils is great. We have a large amount of fertile soil, which, for example, most of Europe does not have.

So what is the advantage of becoming an owner if you buy a separate share? You can also invest in land through a fund, through semi-investment, the so-called raid there, right? And there are two strategies: dividend, where dividends will be paid, and accumulative, that is, capitalization. And what are the disadvantages of being smaller? What are the disadvantages of more commission? Because the fund that manages this land bank takes a commission, obviously because it's a business for it.

And these are the disadvantages, what are the advantages, a lower entry threshold, and in principle, faster liquidity of this investment, unless some major cataclysm occurs in the market. Because if everyone wants to sell everything at the same time, you understand that you won't sell anything.

But potentially, for example, there is much more liquidity there, because it is much easier to buy, because to buy a land plot, especially the first share, it can take you up to two months to search, register, and get legal support. If you are married, then your husband's consent is required.

But it's all being done. I was going through this completely normally. And you can buy a plot for development. Yes.

And why is it not so interesting for development now, if we are talking about the area around Kyiv or cities with a population of millions? Because most of it is already built up, well, let's be honest, these are such tasty morsels, this is a resource, a type of asset, not a resource, a type of asset, it has already increased in price. The potential for growth there is small, if, for example, it is even compared to agricultural land.

But if we are talking about land for development, then in essence how will this investment work in principle? Well, if we find an investor who wants to build a house there, or a house, or an apartment building, then we just bargain with him, saying that I can sell you this land plot and you will buy it for such and such an amount. Well, it's clear that a person wants to sell for more than they buy.

Or a person can buy a plot of land for development and become the independent developer of this land plot. But it is clear that this is an investment, a large, full-fledged project.

which requires significant funding. This is not for a beginner. What would you recommend? Invest in real estate or land? As of now, the first thing I would do is answer myself why I'm doing this. But the vast majority of it will be agricultural land.

And if it is different, why am I doing it? That is, conditionally, if I, in principle, have the funds now, I will invest in real estate, but potentially I have a child who will live in this apartment, then, uh, in this case real estate is not a fact, because the return on this investment may be much less than investing the same funds in a good allotment of agricultural land, and then using these funds to purchase it, receive a rental payment for several years, 5-7 years, then it will increase in price and you can even sell it and with this money there will be much more capital to buy. Look, when it comes to real estate, nobody knows, honestly, how the real estate market in Ukraine will behave in the future.

But what do we see now? An expensive square meter in dollars, and the risks of Shaheed missiles are very high. Plus, the demographic situation in Ukraine is not the best.

And we have an outflow, large migration, people are leaving Ukraine. There is an outflow of people, the birth rate is falling, that is, the demographic situation is working against us. And let's be honest, in order for Ukraine to develop well and qualitatively in the coming years, we need hands, a workforce.

And we are considering the option that, for example, the minds of Ukrainians are leaving abroad, we are replacing our workforce, so people will come, migrants, who have to live somewhere there. But these people, they don't have the financial capacity to buy themselves some cool, high-quality housing and rent, for example, high-quality, good housing.

That is, you see, we have to potentially, strategically think 10-20 years ahead, what can await us. And, unfortunately, the prospects are not the best.

Ugh. So we think about what we can do with this property if we consider it as an investment. One thing, if so, I'm buying this apartment now to pass it on to my child later. Maybe, if that's all your knowledge and you feel confident, yes, maybe.

Nobody says no. But consider other alternatives. Maybe the stock market, coming of age capital. And this means that when we have a child and we invest for her all this time until she turns 18, and then, yes, and then she simply already has some capital that we transfer to her, and she spends it on education, well, or on housing, we help. Yes, okay.

Good tool. I left cryptocurrency for last because at the beginning you said it was such an aggressive risk for the pros. Why are they aggressive? Because the risk is very high there, because everything changes very quickly there and this needs to be monitored.

Yes, look, cryptocurrency is now Generation Z investing in cryptocurrency. It's good when people invest who are insiders who understand this, but they often invest because that's what everyone does. This is the most flawed strategy.

Cryptocurrency is a high-risk instrument, but also a high-yield one. If you have $1,000, I would definitely recommend not investing in cryptocurrencies, but investing in more conservative, more reliable instruments according to your risk profile. And, for example, create an investment sandbox with 20% of your investment portfolio.

This is when you buy riskier instruments, such as cryptocurrencies or shares of individual companies that you like, that seem promising to you, that you have analyzed. That is, 80% of the investment portfolio.

Make the code more reliable, uh, more predictable, more understandable to you. And 20% is an investment sandbox where you will test your own hypotheses, and take your cryptocurrency there. But that means some small amounts, right? That is, to, well, frankly, well, how small, it all depends on how much a person can invest, because the concepts of a lot, a little, big, small are very relative.

Yes. But if we're talking about this sandbox, where we're testing something, well, I do n't want to spend a lot of money there, well, I don't know, but again, yes, big for someone what. So how do you look at this portfolio? Some people will have $1,000 at the start, while others will have $100,000.

Do you understand? Not from this. We always estimate in percentages. This is the best advice. But cryptocurrency can be, if it fits your risk profile. And it is advisable to invest not in one currency, but in a combination.

That is, there must also be a strategy, but can it be considered in cryptocurrency? Again, if we are talking about the future prospect of cryptocurrency in Ukraine someday becoming, well, just some kind of currency that we can use to pay for certain services? Yes, of course. Look, Ukraine ranks fifth in the world among cryptocurrency holders.

Well, I wouldn't say that this is a super advantage and achievement. Do you know why? Because ahead of the first four places are occupied by states with low legal regulation. That is, they do not lack an absence, but an imperfect legal system that allows them to carry out all these gray machinations.

And we are in fifth place, so Ukrainians hold a lot of crypto. Will Ukraine become one? I am more than convinced. And I think that our financial regulator will review the taxation rules there, because currently crypto is taxed at 18% income tax and 5% military levy.

This is a very high tax. But I think that our financial regulator will also find a strategy that will benefit everyone at the same time. Somehow, to sum up our conversation, I would like to, you know, ask you to give me some advice on where to look, in which sources, for more information, because today we talked in general terms, that is, we told you what tools exist, what we need to do, where to start.

Let this issue be a sip of motivation for you, that in principle it is possible to do this while sitting at home and having a completely different income and a different amount for investment. But where else can you get information? Where and how to develop? If indeed, as you said, there is a third way, when we start with our own self-education.

I was about to read Penzenyk's book. This is our former Minister of Finance, a person who very nicely described the financial system of Ukraine in general, about external debt, about the budget. So start with this.

This is the basis that every Ukrainian should know. I will also add a description of books that you can read, but if you want to start actively investing right away, then first of all, look for sources on the Internet, Google who you trust. It's not always worth going, for example, to a person on Instagram who has designed a beautiful cover there, ask for feedback, read reviews, ask for recommendations from friends.

That is, if you have found one person and are definitely going to see him or her, then try to find two or three more and compare and choose who you will go to, yes, for finance as well as for a financial consultant. Self-study is a great way to learn.

There are many tutorials on the Internet. There are a lot of available openings in English, but you need to keep in mind that in English there will be no state context, no country context. Well, books.

Super. We leave it all in the description, friends. You can then review it, just like last time, and actually improve your financial literacy awareness. Well, and already in such a big topic as investment.

Oksana, I am very grateful to you for visiting us. Thank you for explaining very complex things to us in such simple language. Thank you for the invitation and see you on the internet.

Friends, subscribe to our channel and give it a like. this video, and don't forget to turn on the bell so you don't miss the next episodes of the "How to Live" podcast. Thank you very much for watching.