How to Find the Meaning of Life When You’ve Lost Yourself: Psychologist Anna Valensa on Change and Self-Identity

then we have to create something for which we respect ourselves. This is what adults do. If we do this, if each of us individually does this, yes, asks ourselves about our purpose now, this is one of the words that is also often used in the topic of identity. Appointment or calling.

What I am destined for, I don't know, by some ordinary forces, yes, and what I am called to do among people. This is one of the questions that can, well, also focus you on the topic of identity and focus you on this in an adult direction.

If you can answer that for yourself, most likely the groups of people you will find yourself with will also be slightly older people. We are tautological.

That girl who was born once and now, yes, it's the same thing. On the other hand, these are very different beings, the one that was born then and the one that is now. And therein lies the paradox of identity.

That is, on the one hand, it is the same, and on the other hand, it is a being that is constantly changing. And here's how to combine this staticity, stability, monolithicity, unity, integrity and, uh, constant constant change.

This is the paradox of identity that we encounter and learn from all the time, right? That's how we can be ourselves. We have a big conversation about identity today.

But so that you don't get scared, I will explain this topic a little using my own example. In January of 22, I had the identity of a pregnant woman who was casting doctors for childbirth and was preparing to do nothing and have the most peaceful period of my life, which was supposed to fall in February of 22. But already in February 2022, lying with mastitis in a Lviv hospital after evacuation, a doctor I didn't know, whom I hadn't cast, said: "We have a refugee from Kyiv here with a newborn." And so, in an instant, my identity changed very dramatically, against my will.

You may have similar stories when you were a business owner and then became a migrant. When you were the person who always decides everything, you became the one who helps your husband or wife at the front. In short, war brings many changes to our identity.

How do we understand who we are now? Well, after three years of these constant transformations and how it will help us understand what to do with our own lives. This is a topic.

And I ask you to subscribe, like, and be sure to leave a comment. And I introduce our guest. Today we have a candidate of philosophical sciences, psychologist Anna Walesa. Will you add any more identities or just these two for now? Greeting.

But I have such a complex, probably professional identity, although it has philosophical roots, and on which everything is based. At the same time, I consider myself a methodologist of the helping professions.

This means that I work as a facilitator, that is, I support strategic work in groups and organizations. Are you enjoying life? life, let's say, to groups, teams, and leaders, of course, because I am also a coach who accompanies people in achieving their goals.

And I'm a psychotherapist, so there will be a focus on the bodily direction, yes, that is, it's bodily psychotherapy, so all these identities, all these roles, let's say professional, what I just called are called professional roles. Ugh.

And very often they get these two words confused, saying, well, I have this identity and that's what they call a role. Well, I'll briefly say, for now, that identity consists of various roles and is never limited to one role.

On the contrary, if we were, as they say, locked up in a prison there, yes, with the inscription daughter or mother, yes or if so and well, or the woman even hides. That's right, and if we were narrowed down to one role, we would feel, pay attention to this, yes, not very comfortable or very uncomfortable.

We protest, we want to be professionals, lovers, and I don't know, creative girlfriends, creative people. Yes, that is, we want to be very different.

And this being different in a certain set, in a certain constellation, combination of roles, and this and this is such a general field of the topic of identity that is worth talking about. I want us to start not even with a definition, but, for example, with what I think is the most important question.

Why should a person watch this episode? What result will I get if I finally know what I am now? Ugh. The most important result and reason is orientation.

In fact, the sense of identity, which can be very difficult to grasp, but for some reason you really want to grasp, is like a point of reference. So, deciding on your identity, that is, with this set of, uh, available and desired roles, with the scenario that combines these roles, yes, it's like finding a fulcrum.

And in these turbulent years, we really lack a point of support. And precisely because war shifts key anchors, key points of support. For example, place of residence is a binding.

And we don't think about it, it's like air, really, when we have a home, a place, there's, I don't know, our Slavyansk, where we lived, for example, and it was all natural. There are trees over there, there are houses, there are people like that.

This is a certain point of support. And if suddenly due to military actions, military war in general, yes, I have to move, but that or I have to even think, think about moving, you know? That is, a person finds himself in a new status and is thinking about moving. And this new status, by the way, is very difficult to name.

Here is a person who is planning or thinking about moving because of military operations, she is a slob, she is not yet a displaced person, yes, from Kyiv, but she is already in the so-called transfer, yes, in the process of changing her identity and feels anxious. So it's the antidote, the opposite of calm, right? Ugh.

uh, actually, to search for or deal with your identity with this whole set of roles means to search for and find a point of support that will almost certainly give a real result. Yes, because we do it unconsciously, unconsciously.

If you do this consciously, it will certainly be more successful. Ultimately, I want to talk about practices of understanding who I am or who I am. And maybe you'll share some personal stories.

For me it was like that. Finding myself in new circumstances, in new roles, and in new identities at the beginning of the full-scale project, I literally bought myself a notebook. I bought myself a colorful pencil case with rhinestones because I needed joy in my life.

And I bought gel pens. And I wrote Lera in the center. And my life changed so rapidly that I had no belongings, no space, no people. like everything else.

And I started writing: "What, what is Lera?" And there were very simple things, like drinking tea slowly, from a beautiful mug. And I'm like: "I was happy about that two months ago, right?" Yes, it's fixed.

And I loved this. And I also loved watching Mr. Bean and some completely stupid little things. Well, how about drinking tea. Well, it's also a unique trait for me, though, to watch Mr.

Bean, but if I write it like this, then some character who was there is already drawn, who can be remembered or reinvented, at least to understand that it does n't work anymore, it works. And I remember this notebook page clearly.

I was looking straight at him and I had a map. Yes, you were once this, you are none of that now. We, Mr. Bean, can't even watch it because it's so bad in all aspects of life.

But that's what you were. And this piece of paper became very supportive for me, because instead of the fact that everything had changed, I had a memory: " What was I?" And thanks to her, I was able to move somewhere. Have you ever been in a situation where you were in a situation of a sudden identity change or in a stressful situation where roles were changing and how did you support yourself? Or how do you support your clients, friends who say: "Everything is lost, what to do? Who am I? Where should I go? Well, thank you.

There are so many questions here that I'm a little lost, where to start. But because what you described about yourself is a very vivid example of relying on this identification process. And we remember episodes of ourselves.

And you recorded them, that is, you helped yourself directly with guided identification. Did you identify yourself? Yes, in the past, but, uh, taking a notebook today and writing it down there, I don't know, a pen with rhinestones, so colored pens that give brightness, yes, you, as they say, described point A and accordingly you described point B too. Well, because I think that you also brought some modern elements there, yes, who you are.

And this point A and point B are just two points through which you can draw a straight line, who I am. Yeah.

So this is a very important process and just a wonderful example of how to remind myself, because let's say, what to do in order to get identification, the answer to identify, that is, to seek identity, yes, to name roles, to name what I love. It's just that when you say such simple sensory things, I wanted to say that drinking tea from a beautiful cup is not at all, well, that is, it's very symbolic and basic, yes, because in general, swallowing is one of the stages of a child's need for formation.

This is somewhere, well, up to a year and a half, yes, that is, it's a very early stage, which is generally very closely related to the feeling of existence. That is, it's a very philosophical word, yes, existence, being.

Just the first thing I wrote down is this warm tea, because it's being, right? It's a way of being. The way you swallow, someone would say a sip of water, someone would say a sip of hot coffee, yes, well, and so on.

But very often it's a sip, by the way. That is, identification doesn't just happen there with people, it happens with objects, with clothes, right? There are people for whom this backpack or a handbag, or some kind of clothing is an important component of identification or de-identification. When you can finally throw away some things, or you start wearing dresses or jeans, or you stop, or, like me, for example, well, for 2 years of war, I, well, I just couldn't buy a single new piece of clothing, right? That is, I asked myself: "What if I suddenly, uh, well, if suddenly I have my existing things, yes, something happens to them, yes, that I won't have shoes, yes, and that would probably be the only reason why I could go and try to buy something for myself." Well, that's right, right? And even more so I couldn't wear it.

It's generally special. It's probably, well, almost only recently, yes, I started wearing any jewelry again. Uh.

And well, and this is also connected with how we, how our body in connection with our identifications, right? When this identification profile shifts, when we become not quite who we were for various reasons, internal, because we have internal crises. These crises are not always provoked by war.

It's just that against the background of war, very different internal crises can be provoked. The dynamics of internal development, who I am professionally, what relationships I am in, yes, it can, as they say, resonate. At the same time, at this moment, very subtle elements of identification, they, well, let's say, actualize us, that is, make this or that characteristic of me actual.

You asked about me when you asked, it's a very, well, complex question, but one association arose in me, perhaps it will sound provocative. Well, I gave birth very early, for the first time.

It was 17 years old. And it's difficult, it's a challenge, it's a change of everything, it's a lot of different identities, and which ones emerge here. My question is what tools to use to pull yourself out of the state I don't understand that I now you had some kind of, I don't know, hook that you were able to pull yourself out of and say: "You are now this." Ugh.

Well, we have the answer, that is, to identify. Just look, it's writing notebooks. The second point, of course, is identification in contact with people you trust and with whom you, well, identify in the sense that you have a connection, resonance, you can be heard. This is very important.

Look for people who, in your opinion, in your subjective opinion, yes, hear you. Because if, in your subjective opinion, your psychotherapist or someone, excuse me, I may say seditiously, yes, but if a wonderful professional whom you pay dearly, you have the feeling that you are not heard, yes, then, probably, this is not the case or not the person who, at least now, will help you identify. a person who is having difficulty, uh, who has changed their place of residence, uh, relatives relationships, something happened to them, yes, some kind of breakup or, on the contrary, even the appearance and getting married there, yes, or getting married.

This is also in a certain sense stress and so on, yes, and not always girlfriends and friends can sometimes we have such girlfriends and friends, yes, who give the opportunity, if you feel that they hear you perfectly, yes, that is, you can talk, just talk, yes, and not get 15 recommendations per second, so what should you do, how should you live, who are you after this, yes? But don't think that you are there, you need, yes, you need to look positively, yes, yes, yes, yes. or what are you there, you are not injured, you have not been killed there yet or this is my favorite and what are your problems there, Masha Dasha has a problem and a big one by the way, this is such a competition, loss of suffering yes, this is one of such toxic elements, even natural ones by the way, because in communication people very often also need identification, that is, those who have a problem in what, yes They may not know what you need to identify with, right? That is, you need support or to be listened to.

Therefore, ask your friends and those around you, sometimes your parents, you can ask them. They may not always be there, yes, well, respond to your requests, but still ask people to just listen to you. Do this, note before your speech, yes, that you need to be heard.

Well, I also noticed that everyone is so stressed right now that you can tell your friends that you need support, that everything is very bad for you, and your friends will be focused on their problems, because now there is a war and there is no shortage of problems. And then it is your sensitivity to yourself, when on some on some phrase, yes, because after 15 or what is 5 minutes, or 30 minutes, or three days of communication, you understand that you are not being heard, then you need to change your ear.

Yes, you need to change those who listen to you and ee to search, to search tirelessly to search, yes, that ee to search for those who will hear you. And I know that people get tired of searching and say: "But this is impossible.

Well, oh how is this last refuge such a refuge, yes, to this, to shelters", yes, it's a diary, maybe. Well, in the sense that it won't be, it will just listen to you, right? That's why it often turns out to be just a piece of paper, yes, or an open file, uh, in which you type, yes, it can turn out to be that silent listener.

And so be it. So don't hesitate to use it. By the way, I often write diaries and it's interesting that I don't keep them. That is, it could be a Word document, it's written out and deleted.

And I feel better about it. That is, I don't see the point in rereading my memoirs and systematizing how I spent the summer, but here right now in the moment it's very good. You just blurt it out without feeling: "You don't listen to me, you don't love me, you don't appreciate me, and everything happened organically".

Hello. Well, with this small circle I want to ask you to subscribe, like and leave a comment so that this video can be seen by as many people as possible. Well, without your support, there is no way.

And enjoy watching. By the way, I really liked the idea that I heard in one of your lectures that, uh, we don't choose what identities we have. Not always and often we don't choose, like, for example, a person living under shelling.

Well, it's unlikely that anyone would plan to choose like that. But if you imagine that, uh, our life is a theater and we didn't choose and cast identities, then we can choose who to let on stage and who to sell tickets to. And one day, when I was in a very confused state and I literally went around saying to my friends: "Give me a little help, please." And everyone was very busy with their own problems.

I just sat down, uh, on a pebble and said to myself: "Lera, we are doing a performance for the wrong audience." I went home and did a performance for myself. I wrote diaries, drank tea and it became a little easier.

And I found this idea very supportive that we can choose who to show our performances to. And if you have friends with whom you have been friends for 15 years, it is not at all necessary that they are your support. Yes, especially at the moment.

Yes, at the moment these can be very different people. We really need people. And even when we write a diary, we can mentally, let's say, turn to someone. Another subject, as I already said, is some kind of absolute instance, yes, that is, because very often our important questions that we want to discuss alone with ourselves are how something is possible at all, how war is possible at all, how it is possible at all, that it is I who lost a house or a chick or something else and so on, yes? That is, these are very these questions in a larger context, so it is also important to write them there, and so on.

Well, at the same time about It's about returning to yourself and because on the one hand, returning to yourself is never a return to something that was. It's always at the same time building something new.

And this is where the word theater of identity fits best. Why? Because it combines the answer to the question of who I am and, well, that is, individual identity and the answer to the question of who we are together. Yes, that is, group identity.

And this is the moment when different aspects of me manifest themselves with the participation of other people. Maybe, yes, my friends listen to me or we do a project with them.

And then I act as a leader, as a volunteer, as a creative performer there and so on, right? Or, I don't know, like an idolized star, yes. I think that in any non-governmental organization or in business there is definitely such a role of an idolized star by everyone.

of identity. True, of course, if you sit and write who I am, a mother, a daughter, a girlfriend, an employee, a star, you can be, because You're the funniest joker at a party, right? For example, or you're a great seducer. This is the whole beautiful, by the way, very wide, uh, spectrum of sexual, erotic identities, what with the exchange of roles and articles, by the way.

But because the roles within us may not necessarily be male or female, yes, there, well, maybe if I'm a woman there, yes, uh, I don't even know, I'm here, even here, everyone can sit down and write these roles for themselves. You'll see how many of them are male and female.

That is, come on, come on. Let's give it a go. By the way, I once got an exercise from a familiar coach. I also didn't know who I was in life.

Tipeli, damn it, you know, this good old riddle. And I just wrote, I couldn't figure out who I should work with. And I sat down, and she said: "Write the roles, I think you have at least 100." Write, then take a picture.

I wrote: "130". Can you imagine? 130. Well, you start simply: I am a daughter, I am a mother, a wife, a professional. Then I am not a driver, which means I am a pedestrian.

And so on I went. I am a resident of the Megapolis. Yeah. I live in an apartment building, like, and they drove me. Such associations.

I am an extrovert and there are so many of them. And you look at all this and think: "God, but it's me, and why am I suffering here, that, for example, my girlfriend fell out", because it turns out that in that identity there was some kind of big percentage stake in who you are. Well, how can this exercise help us? about the priority of roles on the one hand and about their real number and about the fact that there is definitely more than one of them, right? That is, let's say once again, yes, that this image of the theater of identity, that is, let's imagine that identity is a theater, in which has, yes, of course, that there is some kind of building there, some kind of space, and the stage on which everything happens, that is, these are the ones on which our various roles appear, some of the roles behind the scenes, and all the roles, in principle, at a certain moment appear on stage, appear in front of certain specific audiences, because some plays are loved by our managers and employees there.

And then I am a great professional, and I have, so, my manager is sitting in the hall, uh, not looking very carefully at the stage, yes, employees who don't like me, are sitting there in the front row and are very enthusiastic. There.

And there are those who generally pretend, employees, I mean, yes, who leave the hall when you go on stage. And they pretend so that you see it, those pompous things are so unpleasant.

Yes, yes, absolutely. And what's more, even your roles even on stage can be more than one, right? That is, you can be like, I don't know, old worker, yes and, I don't know, such a flirtatious star, yes, or an aggressive [ __ ]. Actually, yes, that is, there can be such roles at the same time.

This performance can develop. Yes and how do we understand that the scene is over? Well, for various reasons. Either you hear applause, it means that you have broken the applause, everything is fine, or you understand that the audience is not very, let's say, satisfied, but it's time to leave the stage.

That is, what's up, the working day is over. Thank you all, yes, goodbye. And tomorrow we will return to a similar scene. And so what does this do to our roles or what can we do with them? Well, these are accents.

And indeed, we pay a lot of attention to some roles. That is, we think that all of me is in this relationship with my girlfriend or all of me is in this profession of mine. And then really, if suddenly I have always been applauded, and today I don't applaud, yes, well, so today they are very happy with me, or basically everyone is happy with me and is happy, and today someone is unhappy with me, the manager is unhappy with me, or the employees are snorting something, yes, at me.

And then I will suffer a lot, yes, I am there, I don't know, behind the scenes there will be some kind of internal performance of yours, when you will calm this, so-called heroine, yes, who plays a professional, yes, that she is, of course, a star, it's just that today is a bad day, for example, yes, and pay attention to how much time you spend on it, because sometimes it takes too much time to rock your, so-called, vulnerable star. time, that is, the total internal energy, yes, you spend on certain, as they say, favorite roles.

Of course, they are important for us, but find help, find a coach, yes, a psychotherapist, a person who will support you in this, to better understand what kind of professional you are, and better understand the separate block of these professional roles, respectively, professional identity. professional identity is never one role in reality.

But we play very different roles within our profession. There we can do our job perfectly, for example. But when it comes to the fact that we need to be paid something else for our excellent work, we feel simply, I don't know, well, probably, someone, well, I don't know, a rapist who demands a salary, for example.

And this role itself, the very, let's say, the prospect of me now going to the manager and raping someone for some reason in our head it can be some very terrible image, here, and not the image of a person who wants to discuss the volume of his contribution, and well, his work, yes, and discuss how much of a salary increase is possible. This, by the way, is a very interesting phenomenon.

I don't I do n't know if it's locally Ukrainian or not, but it's very difficult for many. Especially for women to say, "Please give me money, I do a lot and you owe me, because it's normal." Ugh. Such an interesting problem, because it's a different role for us, right? A good girl.

Well, it depends, right? It could be a good girl who, again, is afraid. Why did I say, well, in a very contrasting way, yes, that this is the role of a rapist? Because no, it's the role of a person who can calmly describe, for example, the volume of their work. By the way, a diary and Excel also help here, right? I mean, if you make a small timesheet, for this you need, well, a description of the time you put into the work, yes, sometimes it helps to simply re-identify with the work that you do.

And then, in fact, for such an accounting task. You hear, yes, identification, yes, we don't really we want, I don't, well, I mean I can count, yes, but but I'm not an accountant, of course, yes. At the same time, this small accounting exercise can very strongly re-identify you with what you do in terms of content and how much time you invest in it.

And this simple kind of audit, yes, maybe it's not very familiar to you, if you're not an accountant, relatively speaking, but but this is what will return your dignity from the point of view and point of support, yes, in order to, for example, look for the right role in order to go into the manager's office and negotiate about it, because this manual does not exist the right one, in fact, it needs to be created. invulnerable, not a rapist, not a beggar, no, well, you could say, yes, that they are not polar roles, because there is a role that is absolutely dependent, as you say, a beggar and a slug, and there is a role that is too impudent of rude people, and which we are afraid of, but for so that they, as a rule, are very obvious to us, these contrasting roles and we do not want or do not know the experience of exploring the roles between these polarities.

And we need to explore them, that in order to create your authentic role of a person who knows his contribution, simply knows, simply informed. Because very often your managers or employees are much better informed about the amount of work you do.

And you really hope that they will notice or count. And, of course, they will be grateful enough to you for the work done. They will also measure it and tell you how much it costs and will be happy to please you.

But if everything I have said, you understand that this is a very big job. Work that other people sometimes do not want to, cannot do for you, you understand? And this is very important. This is part, I think, let's talk about growing up, yes, that different aspects of our identity grow, let's say, over life.

And first, yes, we get the main components of identity, of course, in childhood, yes, we listen to our mother's voice, we have someone there either strictly or affectionately wakes us up in the morning, yes, and so on, and so on. Perhaps some events there were traumatic in childhood.

And this becomes the basis of who I am and the good girl that you imagine yourself to be. Someone imagines themselves to be a very obedient good girl, and someone imagines themselves to be a very seductive, good girl who is simply beautiful and therefore must be loved. And someone does not imagine themselves to be a good girl, so they shut their mouths and do as I said.

Absolutely wrong. And I am someone there, I don't know, the headmistress since I was a little girl, yes, for example, or a devil in a skirt, or a skirt with horns, yes, and a ponytail and so on, yes, that is, these are just the skirts you questioned, the horns and Kata please. Well, yes, here she will wear whatever she wants.

But what do I mean, that we get a set of such children's roles that are very different. Well, in which, in which relationships, by the way, you can describe. This is such a basic, probably one of the basic practices regarding roles.

Well, your teaching gave you the difficult task of describing all the roles, right? You can start, for example, with the answers to the question: "Who was I to my mother? Who was I for dad" or was I, right? Who are you, a boy or a girl? Here's how to describe these different roles. Mini, well, I'm asking for at least 20, yes, because first So, no, well, you try.

Let's try. Take a break, write. It seems to me that 20 is exactly 10 minutes to think. Well, right away, no, this is not an exercise for time, really. Spend more time on this exercise.

But what am I talking about, that these will be such a basic spectrum of roles, which may surprise you very much, because in adulthood we forget that a good girl, for example, was primarily for my mother and wanted to be, and this was a certain image of a good girl for my mother. And the maternal role for a girl is a role, let's say, socially forming, therefore demanding.

And this means that now all bosses, all managers, yes, everyone who occupies some authoritative role somewhere, and this is a woman, yes, they will be considered as, well, standards for which I must perform certain certain roles. And you must not because even this person is very demanding.

He may be demanding, he may not. It often happens that yes, demanding, because this is a leadership role, his task is to be demanding in the structure of the organization. But, uh, you behave like, uh, let's say, a squeezed and tense personality not because of your immediate supervisor, but because your childhood story is like that, yes, and you simply repeat it in front of, let's say, a very strict mother and you really want to be there for her, to be with her, to be so that she loves you and so that she likes you, right? So this also affects, rather, it is a children's set of roles.

Then there is the youthful set of rudders, which we started talking about a little bit about sexuality. That's where it blossoms.

But all the creative variability, yes, all the variants of temptations, the desire to attract attention, the desire to be noticed, uh, desire, God forbid, not to be ignored. And this is how we write a social role.

For whom am I writing? This is a young man, right? What did I want, who am I for? Well, I wouldn't complicate it, but because what is it about? This is, for example, all my, uh, I don't know, all the boys and all the girls. That's the first thing that arises, yes, probably, such a sexual thing for my friends, girlfriends and my friends, yes, who I am or was, and for those whom I loved or loved, yes, what were my roles, who I played, who I played, who I loved to play, who I hated to play.

When, I do n't know, when I was invited somewhere on a date, did I want, I don't know, to dress provocatively there and look like, well, straight up sexy, yes, for what, yes? And either no, or on the contrary I wanted it to be a perfectly romantic date with, I don't know, there, ruffles, flowers there and that's it, like in a movie, yes, in a certain romantic way and that's all. And who did you feel like? Who did you want to feel like and did you feel like in reality.

Because very often this youthful age and period of our life, and then cyclically repeated such youthful episodes, yes, they are full of charms and disappointments and very contrasting. And but why this part, so why is it important to us? We did n't really say anything about identity being important, right? Because the very concept of identity appeared in history.

Erik Erikson. He is an American psychoanalyst and the 70s of the 20th century. And he paid attention to youth. He paid attention to how after a period of active identifications in childhood, the adolescent and then the adolescent psyche answers very painfully through a crisis, through such a crisis of self-understanding to the question: who am I.

That is This is a certain period in our lives when we actively identify ourselves. In childhood, we may not think about it, but the acute need for self-identification arises precisely in the teenage and youth period. And even the whole theory of generations, for example, Hof and Strauss, American, is based precisely on, well, on the idea that important ideas and that key values, key habits, behavioral patterns are laid down precisely in adolescence and they are characteristic of an entire generation.

Yes, that is, this is very important, but now we will not go into generations until we focus on youth. This is the period when we very radically decide who we are, who to be.

Yes, often who to be is a professional question, yes, that is, what profession to choose, what activity to choose or to refuse any type of activity and professionally go homeless, yes? Why do they do gap years for young people, yes, after the school period, yes, so that you can volunteer, search, not be obliged, to choose something very quickly. This is important in the sense of finding identity, so that a person feels the freedom of this professional search.

Also, uh, who to be is a question of who to be with, that is, it is a question of which groups of communities should I join, right? Therefore, for youth, adolescence, it is very important to which community I belong. Such as hitchhiking, seeing the world, stopping on couches.

Absolutely. And this drive, uh, actually lays the foundation for independent thinking and independent responsibility. Because if a person did not have the opportunity to choose, yes, very often their sense of responsibility is pressure, not choice, yes, not freedom.

And explain. Ugh. Uh, well, many people are talking a lot about responsibility now. The word responsibility is already our next age of adulthood, right? And it is definitely not about youth, but in order for the idea to appear, who I really should be as an adult, yes, I need to experiment with what you say hitchhiking, yes, I don't know, there's Taiwan and Washington, yes, that is, some or Frankivsk Kolomna absolutely, yes, one way or another these are ours or, well, such people and other people, yes, with whom I have to communicate, be, such sex or other sex, yes, and many, many of these aspects and roles that I have to experience in order to decide. And also this is a season of crazy creativity.

I want to create something new. Yes, youth is a period of generating incredible ideas and associating or identifying myself with these incredible ideas. These are the ideas of my destiny.

So we talked about God, right? That is, youth speaks to the great, speaks to what is greater than me, right? Will my life have meaning? A crisis, for example, a suicidal one falls on the age of 16. But then, well, such a large number, but because the search for oneself, it is sometimes unbearable and difficult, and it, that is, we need to know who I am so much, yes, that the psyche is looking for the boundaries Being, yes, to be or not to be, answers the question.

And we create this future reality. We create plans for ourselves. A young person creates plans, uh, an image of themselves in the future that has never been before. It's very risky.

Youth always takes risks, presenting themselves. Youth always presents themselves a little differently than they are, because they simply are not yet who they want to be. That's all.

They are not yet professionals, but they come and learn a lot, what's so dada about. Absolutely create an image and create an image that will have the right influence, will look impressive. That's so that I will be accepted very much.

So youth asks: "Accept me for who I want to look like, become, yes, yes, I want to become." And this is the problem of becoming, and this is the problem of identity. And now, talking to you here in 2025, for some reason everything you said was associated with the fact that we have gone some way, we have already become adults 30, there, for example, some kind of crisis came, for example, a full-scale war, the birth of a child, the loss of a home, a partner, something.

and we go back to our youth. Go think, who are you, what are you, and do you even want to live in this world? Because, well, I won't surprise anyone if I say that people are losing their sense, that many of us had the thought: "Is it worth continuing this if I do n't control anything?" And this doesn't mean that we really seriously considered it. But when you talk about youth and the unwillingness to face a meaningless life, then I somehow associatively understand that after a full-scale war, such thoughts arise not only in me, but in many.

Ugh. From my environment. So be it. Ugh. Ugh. Is there something in this or not? Yes, there is. Well, of course, the topic is to the obligatory part, yes, we can move on to the conversation about identity there. This is to the so-called crises, yes.

Also Eric Erikson, as the author of this concept in such a social, broad discourse, he drew attention and called these transitions between age stages, yes, crises. And one of his findings was that he added to the early stages of development, yes, he added stages of adulthood, stages of development of adults.

This is an important, well, such a finding, yes, because before him, let's say, well, psychoanalysis, psychotherapy in general focused and in many ways continue to focus on early development. This is very important.

That is, a child develops very actively and every year something new appears there and a new ability. This is important, of course.

At the same time, Erikson drew attention to the fact that people in the following stages of life, yes, they also have their own dynamics of development. including it is not called adulthood, but there is what I call adulthood and maturity.

There are at least two stages, uh, the last ones in his, these are stages that fully correspond in my model to my model maturity, they correspond to the stage of maturity, yes, that is, this is, uh, the theme of integrity, yes, or despair, for example, yes, that is, either we create a holistic picture of the world for ourselves and accept it in peace, or we fall into despair. M But despair is the path to integrity.

Despair is a very dangerous failure, because it is standing right over the abyss. Uh, the feeling of despair is situational - that's one story. And well, it's like, you know, like the difference between just words, uh, there I have depression this morning, yes, and what clinical depression actually is.

That is, these are two different things. Similarly here, yes, you can talk about despair as a situational state that surged there and passed, yes, yes, from fatigue there or from many factors may be associated, but this is something that ends and does not constitute the general background of life. And vice versa, when it is a mature person who loses not just meaning, yes, but really plunges into this despair not seeing, for her the fabric of existence is torn, right? And it's very tragic, really.

It's big. And so many people can stand on this border now. And that's why, let's say, the topic of restoration or the question of restoring identity is so important. And what is in the fullness of these, to restore a full identity, as far as I'm concerned, yes, I propose a model of maturity in which all components, well, at least in meaning, are equally important.

This is a component of your childhood roles. Who were you for mom, dad? Who were you with your brothers, sisters? Who were you as creative children who searched and played? Well, important aspects of the identity of youth. Who were you as a sassy girl or a sassy young man? Uh, a sex star, yes, there's Macho, and so on, yes? Who were you when you were still when you were still nobody in the social sense, yes? When maybe you hadn't earned all the money in the world yet, when you could have been anyone, because you weren't limited by status, for example, right? Or you were still in the garage creating, so, some ideas for personal computers there, yes, and you didn't know that you would become Steve Jobs and Bill Gates there, yes? You didn't know that yet.

Well, there are a bunch of roles that still want to go to the disco. And what does this give us? Now, now, wait, there is an important adult part, because we haven't talked about it much, yes? And I got hooked on this topic precisely because of adulthood. When we started talking about finances and an accountant, I said that growing up, well, that is, in a sense, creating this file for yourself and counting how much I've done, yes, this is an element of growing up, which requires a certain, God, I'll say a terrible word, wonderful for adults and terrible for young people, for the youthful type and for the childish type.

This word is discipline, right? But I invite you to such, well, such free self-discipline towards self-esteem, self-worth, yes. And, uh, part of, let's say, adulthood is accepting reality as it is, including your efforts put into work and the fact that your efforts put into work will be appreciated by other people.

This is a fact of life that is very difficult in the previous two stages of our development. It is very difficult, they say, to come in. Yes, you have to stop working for ideas.

Uh, well, you know, adults are just as fascinated by ideas as young people. At the same time, they learn to face reality, not run away from it. To face it means to count in a sense.

It means, uh, well, at least not to run away immediately, as soon as it turns out that your sum is less than you expected, and you are covered with, what, disappointment, yes, for example, just not to run away, just to stay in the moment, maybe to seek support, because sometimes, well, seeking support is associated with some kind of very vulnerability, there, almost not childishly, but it's not like that. An adult ability to ask for help is an adult ability.

Sometimes a person can ask for help who clearly understands where their resources are sufficient and where they are insufficient. And finding the right support is, as they say, a very adult job.

It needs to be done now. So this is probably what I'm telling adults right now during the war, well, not that I'm advising them, but just, I don't know, imagine some kind of symbolic angel next to you, who just reminds you, that you can always ask for and find the right type of help that you need, right? And if this angel is with you, yes, your decisions, let's say, in his presence, yes, will be the most optimal from an adult point of view, because you will always stop in time and be able to control yourself, let's say. I wanted to share an example, it seems to me very appropriate.

During the full-scale operation, I started to create women's clubs of women, who gave birth after the age of 22. And it was such an improvisational thing at first.

Then I mastered a little NNNS, facilitation and so I started to group them around myself, group them around me, and they around me, because it was such an equal circle of communication. And recently one of the girls in our group chat of these support groups wrote: "Yes, girls, I need support immediately, because I can't pull it off anymore.

Everything is very unfair here. Tomorrow is the 13th. Who knows, they gathered themselves, she came, I started moderating something. They seized the initiative, moderated it." But they tell me: "What about you? How are you today?" And this is op, op, reflection, empathic return.

And I sit and think: "God, how adults everyone has become." And it turns out what happened? A person, well, an adult, experienced a stressful moment. She realized that I'm not pulling, I don't understand, I'm having an explosion, chaos.

I know that I have a club here, where this chaos is now being rewound and given in three different skeins, with which I will already know what to do. She's all op to herself, and they're already trained.

We've been going to these meetings for two or three years. And it's as if you could suffer and break your psyche and cry, but you just came and did it, well, as if you worked it out. You know that you overdid it, the next day you ran 30 minutes longer.

And for me this is such an important story, how a person asks for help. Not because they are weak, but because they know how help works. How to get a resource? Of course, just in That's why adults look very, as they say, bravura.

In what sense? That from the outside they are, firstly, a sign of adulthood, unlike our previous two levels, they are very over-productive, well, let's say, over-productive people. These are people who have come up with something that they will do, and they embody it.

They do what they want. And therefore, everything is usually okay with their identification. They just do n't think about it. Another metaphor about identity, yes, is that if everything is fine with it, we almost don't think about it like air.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. When something is wrong with it or some of our important roles suffer, then we start to think about it. And this is important.

And this can be a sign of your next internal crisis, which you should not miss. And what you talked about is about the already existing, formed mechanisms of an adult to receive support. And it is.

Well, the only thing is that when people who, for example, have such have no experience or have little, yes, they generally look at these adults as some incredible miracle. Yes, it's a miracle, strange.

And it is believed that these people are just lucky. I want to say that this is not so. Everyone who listens to this broadcast is also lucky, because you can start to collect this, let's say, a set of your roles, as well as a set of people who agree to talk about it, think and explore it, and get some kind of support groups, and at least remember, yes, that first person, first, second, third, who can listen to you, and you feel heard. That's it.

And you can also give each other to listen to others, because as soon as we feel heard even a little bit, we make an incredibly adult discovery about how different people are different. Well, that is, this difference in youth and in, well, in childhood, we don't really, maybe, think about it.

We can cry simply because we didn't hit, yes, another a person in his youth. we are indignant because they are so different that we, I with them, as they say, will not sit on the same field, yes, in general. That is, it is all very expressive.

That's it. And the otherness of others, as an incredible resource and the ability to leave another person's opinion as it is, and not to die from it, not to try to convince, yes, no, as they say, not to get hurt about others just because they have a different opinion. This, in my opinion, is very much an, well, element of adult culture, adult ability, right? Don't be disappointed if you don't have this ability ready, it can grow, it can develop, because this system and adult, uh, young man, child, young man, adult and mature, yes, these are four components of our identity, yes, they all work together.

This was very important for me to say that identity is not a random set of roles, but integrity. Yes, that is they are interconnected. These are not, well, not pieces, they look like a mosaic to us inside, a spontaneous set.

A situation has happened that we can play and we are children. a situation has happened that someone seduces me and I am such a girl, a girl, yes, or am I you, and what happened there, that they growl at me at work or I growl at someone, because I am a manager, yes, they do not listen to me and something does not happen, yes, and I am responsible and an adult, and everything depends on me. And here only I decide, yes, for example, an adult is an adult manifestation.

Maturity, maturity is exactly that, such an internal status. The fourth, yes, our group of roles, yes, in us, that is, maturity is after growing up. Yes, that is, it is very important for me to separate childhood and adolescence, that these are different hypostases, let's say, ours.

They are very different, they differ, there are their own different signs. And so is adulthood and maturity too I distinguish very fundamentally and conceptually, because adulthood concerns social productivity, status, result. Idea, project, result, gathering resources, creating alliances, partnerships in order to achieve a result.

That is, in an adult, it's all like a train rushing towards its own goal, perhaps only there with planned stops at most, right? That is, it's an acceleration of social productivity. Maturity is a somewhat philosophical state of being, yes, when a lot of experience can be transmitted to other people, yes, when this stage, as they say, primary, what's there, capturing the market and creating products, yes, has already been completed, yes, in life.

Or at least a certain important stage has been completed. Each of us has, uh, let's say, a set of completed there, yes, some stages, tasks, and so on. And they are included in, they say, this maturity package.

These are conclusions about the integrity of being. These are certain philosophical understandings of the universe. But how do you understand it? These are your beliefs that make For you, life is unique, beautiful or not so, but still important, right? In fact, the themes of the meaning of life, they are themes that relate to maturity very much, right? And everything that reconciles us with this contradictory, diverse life, turbulent, not always successful, and sometimes super beautiful, and that's what maturity does.

That is, it unites the components of other roles, yes, in a scenario, if you like, in such a summary, and in a narrative. Another word that was not heard today, and it has a relation to identity is narrative.

And the ability to tell a story, to tell a story, to combine it in a certain logic and to convey it to another from a certain point of view is also a sign that we have a formed identity, uh that it can uh broadcast itself, because maturity shares itself, shares its experience, uh and is very generous, yes, in support, for example, of others, yes, it is our mature component. ready to invest in someone else for his or her own sake and not, as they say, not demanding payment, yes, for that, yes, and she wants to support the future.

Well, there is such a saying, but that grandchildren are the first children. But if you take it, then, from personal history, yes, they say, well, because a person is already maturing to that, yes, because parents, when they are socially active, yes, they, well, can even look at the child as a project. Well, since I have invested so much, such investments, then there are no good grades, something is not going right.

Well. Well, this is such an adult adult problem of adult parents before an adult psychological age. Well, maturity, of course, can be parents of a mature psychological age who are able to enjoy contemplating how a child develops.

And in the same way, mature people in society are able to look at certain, well, for example, youth movements, some artistic manifestations, that is, at something vulnerable or conditionally childish, as something that is worth the future. And then patrons, people of such thinking, who are invested in the future and are ready and have something to invest in, and want to invest in, want to rebuild the future, these people begin to support what is beautiful and vulnerable, that is, essentially childish.

And this is how society actually lives, right? That is, this is the circle of childhood, youth, adulthood and maturity, yes, it is not only our individual identity. Yes, such, let's say, groups of roles live.

Society also lives, right? That is, it is a whole group. This sounds like a typical story of the Maidan. Students leave, then business is pulled up, then someone even older comes.

Someone comes, says: "I can't do anything, sit here, my back hurts, but you sit, here's something for you. Here it is ready for you." Yes, absolutely money, food, bottles with cocktails.

That's how it is. And, probably, this connection between the mature and the childish, yes, part of Ukraine, yes, uh, part of people, part of society, yes, Ukrainian society could really tolerate a lot around Maidan, but when it sounded like that, yes, they beat the children. And at that moment, everyone came out, yes, it's called hide everyone, who or hold me eight, yes? That is, maturity began to actively show it on the square, yes, to support vulnerability, yes? And what happened next? Then this kind of cyclical movement went on.

That is, because the revolution is a youthful phenomenon, absolutely youthful. This phenomenon is when the old order, what has developed, is challenged. And in fact, those who began to support the students, joined the Maidan, yes, joined the revolutionary actions that tore up or patterns, yes, and destroyed this system.

At the same time, where are we now So in the cycle, let's say, yes, our next stage after youth is, of course, adulthood and it's a challenge of choice. This is a challenge, because what distinguishes youth, which revolutionizes and takes to the streets, is a process of choice and a meeting with reality and institutionalization, which is adult work that needs to be done.

Well, you've already seen our protests change slogans, we're no longer against individuals, but for institutions. And what do you say? We as a society are moving into adulthood, because we're worried about the institution.

We're knocking on the door of adulthood, knocking on the door. But while we usually say so, it seems to me, yes, probably, that by the age of 22 or even by the age of 23, and I was still searching. So, it seemed to me that Ukraine is probably such a youthful state because we're so young, we only have 30 years of such, in fact, independent existence and so on.

We have a lot purely youthful problems, choosing an identity, and so on, and so on. Well, in the last 30 years, international relations have really turned me around, let's say, which also seemed very youthful, like the election of Trump in America and the problems with which the problems of self-expression, by the way, yes, that is, well, many people try to say about Trump, like a child who is playing there, some old-fashioned children, an image, perhaps, but the way of behavior and, let's say, that provocation and that way of attracting attention that is chosen, I would like to draw attention to the fact that this is what distinguishes youth. And this is precisely this provocative youthful style that cannot be ignored, it is impossible, right? That is, a young man and a girl do everything so that they cannot, as they say, be unnoticed.

And this figure actually does all that, right? And the American community, for example, reacts to this, right? Uh. We observe, right? And that's why it's very important for us, yes, to really understand where we're coming from and where we're going, yes, where we're going from, that we're coming from the topic of the broad identification zone, that the topic of youth, the topic of contradictory self-contempt and self-respect, contempt for others and respect for ourselves and vice versa.

Yes, from here we have to move towards creating real paths of self-respect. That is, we have to create what we respect ourselves for. This is what adults do.

If we do this, if each of us individually does this, yes, we will ask ourselves about our purpose now. This is one of the words that is also often used in the topic of identity.

Purpose or calling. What am I destined for, I don't know, by some ordinary forces, yes, and what am I called to do among people. This is one of the questions that can, well, also focus you on the topic of identity and focus on this in adult channel.

If you can answer yourself, most likely, the groups of people you will find yourself with will also be slightly older people. There will definitely be a majority of people whose first manifestations are youthful manifestations.

We must understand that no person has only youthful or only childish, or only adult, or only mature manifestations. This is also important, yes, because each person has such a profile, yes, which consists of, yes, absolutely.

That is, you cannot, as they say, write it out here. This is not a template, it is always a profile. Yes.

But really the target will manifest very strong very visible from the outside, that is, a person who is so directly sick with this self-identification, therefore needs very strong feedback on himself, a very strong reaction to himself. Well, like Trump, yes, today in our conversation, yes, or like, I don't know, or like your neighbor 25 years old, or 45, so what kind of appearance and directly, who pierces his ear 45.

So, for example, I'm about Yes, I'm about definitely I'm about him. But but maybe this is not the first not the first piercing, not the first ear, yes, and so on, yes? That is, you will notice it. And this is a youthful type and we cannot scold him on the one hand, yes, because an identity is being born in him.

On the other hand, yes, and maybe you are now in a period that, well, is seething with these internal roles, and you need to deal with it. It is possible.

Well, this, as they say, is good news. It is possible. That is why this path of transition is important, both for the entire nation and for each of us and you, because it is necessary to choose reality. Reality exists, and you must have a description of reality that suits you.

Suits you, yes. It will never be correct from someone's point of view. Let it be correct for these 5 minutes first, and then for the next 5 years. But somehow it is like that.

There. And then, uh, an adult choice, it will definitely, uh, place you in the productivity zone in life. You will be more or less satisfied with yourself, yes, and people will be more satisfied with you.

Oddly enough, sometimes it coincides. I meet people, and even my friends often do, who feel, uh, that they don't understand where to go. As if you've been doing something for so long, and there's no result.

Maybe it's even that despair that you described. What to do if you find yourself or have found yourself in circumstances where you have a lot of diverse experience and it seems like childhood and adolescence have passed, and you are even productive, but a global understanding of who you are and where you are going does not come. I'm asking about some, perhaps, some concrete steps that right now, watching this podcast, a person can stop, take and so that they become at least a little clearer.

Because the phrase: "What is my calling", I can answer, for example, can a calling be to please others or not? formulation, yes, in your own individual style, yes, for example, or like to help, to support. Yeah.

But we can take this calling, you know, from somewhere like look, what's missing, when you formulate it like that, there's a lack of context, because maybe a person can suddenly realize, yes, that my calling is to please others. And there are schools that, well, for example, this school definitely, yes, well, I don't get paid for what I please, yes, and it's not that, I just do n't even bother me to please you, yes, and I'll stay here and I'll do it, yes, and then a person in the context finds his way.

And there can be a situation, I don't know, journalists, yes, what the calling will be to please others. And then we look for, well, a suitable place, yes, where there is an opportunity for this.

That's why, first of all, it's very important why let's give one more important word for identity. The topic is context. Context is what is specifically happening around you.

Because when questions are too universal, like: "And what is your purpose?" Yes, that's why I got confused. What is your purpose? That's it.

That can't be asked in a vacuum. It depends on who you were, who you feel now, and who you want to feel in the future. That is, this is the question that you would ask a person who is in the state that I described.

Uh, at least I will try to break it into three parts, uh, let's say, work with this big topic, yes, into three parts. Who am I, how do you feel? What do you already consider yourself to be? And uh, what moments in your story, in your personal narrative, yes, were the main, bright ones? And you can answer this question, again, you can write, you can tell a coach, a psychotherapist, sometimes a friend, yes, if it's an understanding friend or girlfriend, he will will listen, and you will say: "Thank you".

Just don't ask not to give you advice. So you will walk a little bit with what it is like to have your own history. This will already give the first level of stability, some minimal one, of course, there.

Well, that is, stability, by the way, identity, we didn't say, it is actually being the same. The paradox, the philosophical paradox of identity is that we are that girl who was once five years old, yes, or there the one who was born, this is me about myself in the first birth of the city of Kyiv, relatively speaking, yes, once then, then in 73. Here it is some fact, yes, which just gives such an attachment, support, yes.

And it is always, well, that is, even now it is the same me. Now I am giving an interview here. That is necessary. And these are the same identities - this is a coincidence or the word identity is very close in the Greek language.

Auto and tauto, yes, tautology, that which is repeated. We are tautological. That girl who was born once and now, yes, it is the same. On the other hand, they are very different beings.

The one who was born then and the one who is now. And in this is the paradox of identity. That is, on the one hand, it is the same, and on the other hand, it is a being that is constantly changing. And so how to combine this staticity, stability, monolithicity, unity, integrity and, uh, constant constant changes, this is the paradox of identity that we are constantly facing with you and learning this, right? That is how we can be ourselves.

So, uh, so, the past present, what am I coming to now? What questions do I have now? What challenges do I have? Values, what problems. Values are the answer to the question.

Let's be straightforward here. Value is the answer to the question of what is important. Can you relate it to the present, right? Maybe, well, you can do this ask what is important to me now, what is important to me in life in general. And also write the answer to this question, yes, that is, this will describe your present, what is relevant now.

Sometimes it is important what is happening right now, because sometimes some external factors or some internal factors directly confuse you right now, yes, and then we also describe them in the period of today, the present. And still, an important question: who will I be when I grow up? And that is, what will happen in the future? And this is important for all living people who ask about identity, because, uh, we often forget this wing of the future, yes, strange as it may seem, yes, we rely on who we already are, because it is safer.

we can develop a little bit of, well, ourselves today, but not far away, as they say, the zone of proximal development, yes, well, as is customary in Ukraine, one week of planning horizon, right? One week. But this is not this, by the way, that, yes, that the military environment limits us.

Unfortunately, this one of the problems, yes, that the planning horizon is limited on the one hand, on the other hand it's time to spread our wings. let 's call it dreams first, yes, and then just planning.

And remind yourself of who I might have dreamed of being once, yes, in childhood, but it was a very inspired dream and it has n't been realized yet, which means that it has been mirrored into the future since childhood. Find those components of identity that are very sweet for you.

Maybe that's what you dreamed about in childhood then. Yes, mine dreamed of being an astronaut. Well, look at it differently. Well, at this dream.

I dreamed of being an artist or I saw myself as a writer sitting on the beach in the sand and, therefore, writing something in my diary. Each of us has just this corpse of passwords, imagine, poorly used, let's say, in our theater.

Try to do something with these roles, because they are of the future. But in fact, unfulfilled dreams are our gift, such pearls of our future. But they should be written out and also used.

And then it turns out like a bird, yes. The present is its body. Well, let's imagine, there is the left wing, conditionally speaking, the past, the right wing is the future. And then, leaning on these wings, you can carry yourself to the present and, that is, move every day.

And this is a beautiful final point. Anna Valence, candidate of philosophical sciences, psychology. Thank you.